Letov Interview 1

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Interviewer: Are you often interviewed?

Letov: Yes, often.

I: By whom?

L: Everyone.

I: Everyone who isn’t too lazy?

L: Yes, everyone who isn’t too lazy. Mostly political newspapers.

I: Why?

L: Because I’m in politics now.

I: Your band is involved in politics?

L: Not the band, me personally.

I: What kind?

L: What?

I: Well, right now politics consists mostly of intrigues and whatnot.

L: Politics of the most direct kind.

I: So politics in the full sense of the word?

L: In the fullest sense of the word.

I: What are you fighting for?

L: Ultimately, revolution.

I: A revolution in consciousness?

L: Both in consciousness and in reality, because revolution is a very broad concept. The Revolution of 1917 was initially more metaphysical than physical. Andrei Platonov, who traveled around the Moscow Oblast after the revolution, wrote that the peasants of the towns around Moscow considered the revolution to be a remaking of the entire order of things, both the earthly and the heavenly. They thought that revolution meant that there would be no more death. And when an old man died, they realized that something was off. After this, Platonov wrote Chevengur. In this sense the revolution was all-pervading.

I: Is it possible to create a revolution in consciousness?

L: Yes, it is possible.

I: So you believe that every person could be remade?

L: Perhaps this is a relative concept. I share the point of view of those who do not know but who believe in strength. You started it, now do it. Because everything could be done, every person could do anything.

I: Do you have strength?

L: Yes.

I: Enough to last you a long time?

L: Enough. Because strength is also one of the characteristics of responsibility. Nobody wants to take responsibility. We take this responsibility unto ourselves, because any person could do what we are doing. This is connected to loss. The loss of comfort, for instance.

I: You are often associated with the fascists. Why is that?

L: Because, if we’re being honest, that’s what we are. I consider us to be communo-fascists. We present the most radical wing of the opposition. We are the red-browns. Fascism is a very strong concept. It has not taken root as an ideology in the minds of the masses, because what is fascism?

I: In the public’s consciousness it is terror, no?

L: No, not terror. Fascism is binding together. It is the same thing as communism. It is the primacy of society or the collective over the individual. Everything we’ve always done. Me personally, I am not an individualist, nor am I an egoist. What they did in Germany, pardon me, was not the result of ideology but of their national culture. Because an idea introduced somewhere is added to the culture of the place. If one is to condemn fascism, then one must also condemn Christianity because it birthed the Inquisition, the Reconquista, and so on.

I: Are you a nationalist?

L: Yes, I am a Soviet nationalist.

I: A Soviet nationalist?

L: Yes. I think that over the 70 years of Soviet rule, a new nation emerged. The Soviet nation and a Soviet people. Everybody is now so mixed together that it is impossible to speak of nationalism. On my mother’s side I am descended from Cossacks and on my father’s side I am a Buryat, the native son of the poorest peasants of the towns of the Urals. From the way my beard grows you can see that I have some kind of eastern blood. My wife is Ukrainian. What nationalism…

I: Tell me about your wife.

L: We live well.

I: Does she share your views?

L: Yes, of course.

I: Both political and musical?

L: Yes.

I: Now that’s happiness, real happiness! Now tell me, you’re often associated with the scapegoating of Jews, is this true?

L: No of course. Our director is a Jew. That says it all. Our cameraman is Roma. Now to go back to what I was saying, nationalism is not the same thing as racism. Our guitarist is Armenian. Everybody in our group… until recently our bassist was Jewish. We are not antisemites. Nationalism is to be understood as the interests of the nation that resides on its soil. There are two types of nationalism: a nationalism based on blood, and a territorial nationalism. I am a territorial nationalist.

I: And blood nationalists…

L: God forbid, that’s just disgraceful. Everybody who lives on the territory of my motherland is a member of my nation. Because of this…

I: Do you often perform?

L: Yes, often. Well, not very often. We perform twice a year because the rest of the time we are working, either recording or writing.

I: How did you like our [Norilsk] audience?

L: I loved them. To be honest, it was one of the best performances we’ve had in the last few years.

I: How do you feel about the fact that 14, 13 year old guys go to your concerts? Do you think they get some kind of harmful thoughts?

L: From whom?

I: I’ve even said that if the spirit of evil settles within them, this is because of their parents or their teachers. No Letov is strong enough to do this. Is that right?

L: I think that what we are doing now… We are the ideologues of a new revolution, a new religion. Because the revolution that arose in 1917 carried a strictly religious character. Because communism is also a religion. For this reason Russian Orthodoxy was circumscribed as a decrepit.. that is, the Christianity that had long been dead. It was unable to compete. The communists of the 19th century were creating a new religion. They cemented ideals, and it worked. But because of deterioration, mistakes, and so on… The idea did not lose per-se, but others have taken its place. And now to win we must not rest on communism. It is an ideology that once existed and already lost, it is no longer capable.

I: It degenerated. Those communists who…

L: It’s not that it degenerated. It’s the right idea, but its symbols did their job and that’s it. It did its job once and it won’t work a second time. It is imperative to forge a new religion. Those who come to our concerts, young people…

I: Do you think their numbers are growing or shrinking?

L: Without question their ranks are growing. I was very surprised, because we hadn’t performed from 1990 to 1993 and when we had a new concert we were shocked by the youthfulness of our audience.

I: That is, those who had not gone to your concerts before?

L: Yes, because among our fans of those years, a sharp split in ideology has happened.

I: Name a politician with a capital P.

L: What do you mean? Professionals or…

I: Yes, professional living politicians.

L: That would be Zhirinovsky of course. I don’t know if we support him, but he unquestionably acts like a professional. Judging by this I think he’s a future president.

I: Tell me about your relationship with musicians. Do you have any relations with other musicians or bands?

L: I have good relations with the band Auktsion. It’s not that we like their music, but our interpersonal relations are excellent. We also have good relations with (?), we’re practically one team. We are a very odd formation in the history of Soviet rock which does not resemble anything else, which does not fall into any parameters. We’re like a commune. As you noticed, our group Rodina is composed of almost the same musicians in different configurations, who have their own personal projects. New people are not being added.

I: Alright. How do you feel about your fame? Or rather, is it fame or infamy?

L: Well, it’s stressful. When we started I did not think it would be this way. We played live concerts.

I: You don’t want to be the unifying element?

L: No of course not. When you are associated with something this big it feels awful, it’s so stressful. But on the other hand, it does have its upsides. You can talk seriously about certain things and people will start considering them on a certain serious level. That is, you can shape reality. That’s the one positive part of fame.

I: Do you call your music punk?

L: It’s punk rock. Garage punk. I always listened to the garage music of the 60s.

I: Western music?

L: We listen to Western music from the 60s. Garage punks, psychedelic rock.

I: Of our rock music, whose work do you want to listen to?

L: Our domestic musicians?

I: Yes.

L: Bashlachev. I consider him a brilliant poet. If he were alive now he would be a part of our movement Russkyi Proryv (Russian Breakthrough), we’re planning on releasing his CD.

I: What was your relationship to Yanka? Many people are interested in this.

L: The most direct kind. In our commune, you could say we were something like husband and wife. If somebody’s interested in that, there’s a lot of them…

I: Yeah, tons. Some people say of course, others of course not.

L: It was even closer in some ways. We were doing the same thing. If you say like a husband and wife in a terrorist group, the Red Brigades for instance, who both act together and have commonalities in ideology.

I: Right. Are there any cities you’ve visited that you liked in particular?

L: I love Siberia. I can say that I really don’t like Santerra.

I: Do they like you?

L: In Santerra? It depends. We play a concert, the audience are total fanatics. But on the other hand, lately our concerts have started to be frequented by people with a negative outlook, to put it mildly. They try to disrupt the concerts.

I: How do the cops behave towards you?

L: The cops treat us well, because there are lots of people who support our ideology.

I: Have you noticed older people at your concerts? How do they feel?

L: Yes, the older generation… Lately members of the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, from Trudovaya Rossiya¹, have started attending our concerts… At Stavropol an [old] man came and brought me a bouquet of flowers. I was very touched, this is the first time it’s happened to me. He was like 60 years old and he said this is great, keep doing everything you’re doing.

I: What’s next?

L: You mean in the country?

I: Both for the country and you.

L: I think the revolution will not happen [now] but slowly but surely we will come to power.

I: And then what?

L: And then corrections will be made to reality. Maybe it will be temporary, but we will have the dictatorship of the proletariat.

I: Specifically the proletariat?

L: Yes.

I: You think the proletariat knows how to rule?

L; I consider myself a proletarian. What do you mean ‘can the proletariat rule?’ The power of the people living in Norilsk. They are 90% of the population.

I: You think that this thesis -

L: that is, not your factory, but the rule of the ordinary people who live here.

I: By what means? Electorally, through some electoral organs? In what way?

L: We could discuss the revolutionary program for a very long time because it’s a specialized question… I mean I could give you an answer but it’s a very specialized matter. I could talk about it for a long time. There are political programs, there are… It’s not a question of the program, it’s that the people will take power. I would do anything to ensure that our people come to power. That is, not my party. I do not strive for power, personally. I do not want to be in power. But in this case, we began to do politics because the niche became empty. In the last few years, nobody has taken upon themselves this work which I am now doing. I needed to… Our group now is as follows, the journalist Dugin, the writer Limonov, the rock musician Letov, and a bunch of other people. People who are not politicians, not professional politicians. We are obliged to carry this burden because for some reason nobody wants to take it on.

I: How do you feel about money?

L: I don’t. All of the money that we earn while touring is used to buy equipment. Right now we’re planning to shoot a film, so we need lots of money. The party does not fund us. We’re on our own, we don’t take money from anybody, and we do not sell ourselves.

I: Understood. What’s your flag?

L: My flag is well-known. It was shown on-stage. Red-white-black. A black hammer and sickle on a white circle on a red flag.

I: Could you tell me how Grazhdanskaya Oborona was started? How did it all begin?

L: In ‘83 I returned from Moscow and created the band Posev. What character did the band hold? Well, if you compare the image, it’s like when you pour liquid into a glass. Sooner or later it will overflow. So we listened, read, and read some more, and eventually it needed to overflow from the edges. That’s when I began to write lyrics. Lots of lyrics. And that’s when the project “Grupa Soberatel’”… I didn’t think it would be punk, because I had not heard such music yet…

I: It arose on its own.

L: Right. So we organized a crew. As soon as we began playing, it turned out to be the most pristine form of garage punk. In the style of [?] So we never leaned on anyone or pushed anyone away, we were playing our own creation, and then it acquired a name. In truth, what we’re doing, punk or not, it’s hard to say. We do what we do. In ‘84 Posev fell apart, and Kuzma and I, that’s our irreplaceable guitarist, the only irreplaceable member of the group aside from me. Konstantin Albinov. We created Grazhdanskaya Oborona, that was on November 8, 1984. When the name Grazhdanskaya Oborona was thought up, we gathered together and began.

At first there were three of us but then our guitarist ran off because we started being taken by the KGB. He was called in for questioning, he came by and said, “sorry guys,” all shaking and that was the end of that. He didn’t explain why, he just took his guitar and ran away briskly. I haven’t seen him since then. So it was just me and Kuzma, until November we were writing and writing and writing. Then in November ‘85, we were taken completely unexpectedly. At some point in the morning, Kuzma and I were recording an album at 9 in the morning. They rang the doorbell, we didn’t open it. They started knocking on the windows. I opened the door and they said “alright, off you go.” And that was it. I was questioned, they sent me to the mental hospital for 3 months, and Kuzma was sent into the mines at Baikonur. Even though Kuzma wasn’t supposed to serve because he has a heart condition, he is an unhealthy person. So he served his term. I was released from the psychiatric hospital…

I: Did you like it?

L: In a certain way, yes because it was the first time I learned what I was capable of. Nietzsche has a great phrase, “what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.” I was deathly afraid because there is a certain mythology surrounding the KGB, that they’ll pump you full of truth serum and you’ll sing like a bird. In the hospital they pumped me full of antipsychotics and I understood that there is a certain mental block you can put in. I understood that it’s bad for the mind, bad for this and that, I even went blind for a bit when they pumped me full of neuleptil. I was blind for about 4 hours. I was in white darkness. That’s when I understood that I could put in a mental block, and it’ll be okay. After that I began to write very actively, and began to write more songs.

To make a comparison, there was the Dostoyevsky who stood on the hangman’s platform with a bag over his head and a noose around his neck before being pardoned, and then a new period began. That’s when he began to write The Brothers Karamazov and whatnot. This is what happened to me, so I am thankful for this time. And when was released, I was very uncertain. We were subjected not just to ostracism, but… I can’t even put it into words. We were untouchables in Omsk. Nobody wanted to have anything to do with us, they were all afraid. And from this time, I understood that I need to do everything myself. I got the equipment on the down low from people who weren’t afraid. Tape players, a microphone, and so on. They said to me, we won’t play with you, you’re on your own. And with those two tape recorders, I made the albums Necrophilia, Mouse Trap, Totalitarianism, and so on.

I: When will all of this be brought into good form?

L: It’s been done. The recordings were so-so. Right now the CDs are being released and will be released, I presume, under different names. We made compilations.

I: Right now, so much Grazhdanskaya Oborona music is being released… How do you feel about the distribution of your recordings?

L: It’s good. If before we had a tape recorder culture, now it’s all over. Now it all carries a commercial attitude. We have nothing to do with the other record labels. We’re made our own label. At first Zhenya Grehov helped us. He released our cassettes using his own money. Now we’re working together on GrOb Records, a label which will only be distributing our domestic Russian garage rock. We’re planning to release Soviet music from the 60s, quality stuff. We’ll be releasing Bashlachev’s tracks, and those of all of our bands which deserve it. Living bands.

I: Now, onto an uncomfortable topic: suicide.

L: Why uncomfortable? I think that suicide exists in two forms. One is passive, out of weakness, and the second is active, like harakiri. When you’ve been bested by the enemies…

I: Like when there’s a ditch and you’re standing over it.

L: Yes. For example, during war, when there are explosions all around you, and you’re in a niche in the wall, this is also suicide. But the difference is massive because when a marine throws himself into the niche, he is leaning into death. In this respect… I’ve never been a “suicide singer” as one newspaper article called me. I think that a person does not lie when he is dying. When he is on the border of life and death. What I wrote in Zavtra I recommend to everybody, since in this state a person chooses very carefully, who he is, where he is, and what he ought to do. I’m not calling for it, but this is how it usually is. But this suicidal state, not even suicide, standing on the precipisce between life and death, when you know that you may die in the next minute. The state of the warrior in battle, when you’re sitting in a trench and know that when you go on the offensive you might die. People don’t lie in that moment. That’s when people are genuine.

I: There are people out there who desire suicide. Who desire it because of your songs, because they’re not understanding something about them. Say something to them. Tell them that life is valuable. I’ll make a short clip and broadcast it.

L: But life isn’t valuable, that’s the thing.

I; Just say it!

L: I’ll say something else. There is truth, and then there’s truth. There is one truth for everybody. Life isn’t worth a cent, it’s very easy to die, truth be told. Death does not solve anything. Death is the solution when you do it in the name of a certain idea. But life is worth nothing. And death is worth nothing. There is no death. You’ll die, but if you do not solve the problems that were put in front of you in life, then you’ll have to return and solve them again. Be it on the other side or here. I can say this because I have had a certain metaphysical experience. I was clinically dead. So you gotta do this with strength. It must be done in a serious, well-thought out manner, and with strength. If this is what you’ve decided to do. If you are not certain… Like in war. In war it’s also suicide when a person goes as a soldier and dies for an idea. One must fight, not rot.

I: People also die from rotting. Say something to our guys, the ones who came to your concert. They thanked me. Why don’t you thank them?

L: Thank you, I’m very grateful. I’m very happy that this happened. I’m very surprised that there are so many people in Norilsk who are truly alive. This has been one of the best concerts… The two concerts we’ve had here, they were the best we’ve ever had. I am insanely happy. Thank you so much.

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We discussed this interview on the episode Yegor Letov and the National Bolsheviks